Quake3 Threewave CTF maps

[RogueAgent]

Suggestions for maps to use in the TD 4 v 4 comp please.

Maps need to by symmetrical (fair to both sides) and suitable for a 4 a side encounter.

I'll kick things off by suggesting :-
A Twisted Base
Heart of Dungeon
Twist of Fate

Your chance to have some input into what maps are played. Dont whinge about the map selection later if you are silent here.....

[neonblack]

q3w2 - Courtyard Conundrum (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3w2.html) (small and fast, good for 4v4)
q3w5 - Gospel Crossings (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3w5.html) (pretty small, can be fast, lots of entries and exits)
q3w7 - City Crossings (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3w7.html) (pretty good map)

q3wcp1 - Japanese Castles (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3wcp1.html) (widely accepted comp map)
q3wcp5 - Shinning(sic) Forces (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3wcp5.html) (pretty big map but nice and fast)
q3wcp9 - Spider Crossings (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3wcp9.html) (another comp map, really quick)
q3wcp14 - Camper Crossings (http://www.threewave.com/quake3/manual/overview/q3wcp14.html) (CTF map similar to q3dm6, pretty big, can reduce to a camp fest)



All these maps are in the 3wave map pack (installed with 3wave) and have been used in comps since forever.

While I'm at it I'll make a suggestion for the ruleset too. Can weaponstay be turned off, it's frustrating to run out of ammo and not just be able to pick up a weapon to keep stocked. Camping is discouraged anyway as you only get 1 extra ammo if you're on the base ammo for the gun i.e. 10 rockets and you pick up an rl gives you 11 rockets :)

Oh yeah and 100 health spawns are just about the suckiest thing around. Especially if someone decides to camp a spawn with an rg.

*edit: click the links for an overview of the map incl layout and item/spawn points*

[RogueAgent]

Cool. Thanks for the comprehensive response Neon. Will check out those maps and I can say with confidence we will use atleast some of them.

On rulesets, I appreciate your comments. I am tempted to agree with you on the 100% health spawns (how much damage does a rail gun do anyway ?), but the weaponstay is another matter entirely.
I've played CTF without weaponstay and there are a number of reasons why I am against it.
I think it slows the game down as people have to hunt around looking for a gun rather than getting right into the action. This can lead to frustration and less enjoyment aswell a bringing weapon camping in as a viable strat.
I think it validates and encourages camping on the weapons (and camping in general). If one team can camp out the rockets/rails with a couple of players, it only takes one grapple monkey to rake in the caps.
So I think it also widens the gap between the good and the average players resulting in less competitive (read close) and enjoyable matches.
If a player has to search around for ammo then great, it keeps them moving - its not that hard to find and I've never heard of players ammo camping.....
Even when on base defense campers become reliant on team-mates for ammo sharing / duty rotation and cant just eternally sit on the flag. They need to go out occassionally and this opens up (small) holes in otherwise solid defense.
Its my firm belief that 'weaponstay on' keeps games fast, fluid and fun.

So, I'm against the weaponstay off suggestion, but all the others are good and will be looked into. Thanks.

[Satan]

im agreeing completely with neon :/

greg the rail does 100, so 125 health spawns i'd say.

and weaponstay off as well

[neonblack]

well i'll agree to disagree then. ctf has a standard weapon respawn time of 5 seconds i challenge any team to completely deny a weapon from the other team with a respawn of 5. it's also not possible to stockpile ammo from camping a weap from the reason i've said above. also in every map i've played weapons are not contested ie you don't fight for control of a weapon like you do with quad or any other powerup. so players grab a weapon on their way out or wait 5 seconds for it to respawn.
what's frustrating is when you are holding the flag only to run out of ammo at a critical time because the ammo boxes are out in the middle of the map. i believe that the advantage is taken away from the flag carrier here. i'd rather see caps than 2 teams d-stacking for a nill all draw.

oh yeah and the rail does 100 damage and the shotty 110 if you're standing right next to the player, a direct rocket will do 100 and quad lightning will chew through someone in less than 2 seconds :)

[azog]

listen to neonblack, he's the dude that actually plays q3 ctf ~.~

[RogueAgent]

The flag 'carrier' passes through the middle of the map quite often and can easily restock. The flag 'defender' on the other hand is the one likely to run out of ammo resulting in weaker defense. Sure that might be frustrating but its hardly likely to result in a stronger defensive lockdown.
Waiting for a weapon respawn has a remarkable slow down on game pace. 5 seconds is a long time in Quake ! Especially for a team trying to regroup after a quad base-rape.

i challenge any team to completely deny a weapon from the other team with a respawn of 5

They dont have to completely deny the weapon to make a nuisance of themselves and detract from others enjoyment.

I respect your opinion and I realise that may be the way a lot of comps run online where the skill level is higher and the difference between team skill level is less and needs to be emphasised. I dont think that is the case here at TD and would rather push for a fast paced game where teams can still enjoy the game even if losing.
Needless to say I'm pretty confident there will be no nil-all draws at the next TD 8)

I agree that we can boost up the spawn health to 125 which should stop some raping. I've also had a look at the maps you've suggested. Gospel Crossings, Spider Crossings and Japanese Castles were all ones I rated well before checking back to this post and seeing you rate 2 out of 3 of them as 'quick'. Quite possibly we will use all 3. I've played 2 of them before and they are fairly easy to learn too which is also good.
Thanks for helping out with your suggestions.

[RogueAgent]

Since I'm getting broadband soon I thought I'd have a deeper look into how online CTF if played.

I discovered that the CTF that neon 'actually plays' is in the OGN league which runs OSP CTF, a completely different animal to Threewave CTF. There are no runes and no grapple in OSP which is a shame as in Threewave the grapple adds to game pace and the runes add flavour.

I checked out the ru$h clan website which appears to be recruiting and found this nugget :-

Skill level is not an issue. If you have never played ctf or freeze tag before it's ok, we can teach you.

Very good !
Plus :-

If you are an active member of another quake 3 clan, chances are we won't recruit you. It's not fair to us or the other clan(s) you are in.

Gold ! This is the sort of noble pro-development, anti-whoring policies I wish more clans would take.
I was tempted to sign up right then and there, but thought I better not as neon might not appreciate it.

I searched in vain for a Classic Threewave CTF competition in Australia, but did find a large league running it in the UK :-
www.savageleagues.com

...and USA :-
www.ctfx.com

...which BOTH use default CCTF settings which is a respawn of 0, ie weaponstay ON.

So if we play OSP CTF in future, the weaponspawn will be set to 5 secs, but this comp is Classic Threewave and we will use default comp settings.

[neonblack]

i've only heard of 1 classic ctf competition in aus and that was a 1 day thing at the bunker in qld a while back.

i guess i'm just an osp fanboy and i'm just used to the style of play, which is just as fast and tense imo.

oh and i think you're looking at the old website. we've moved to www.clanrush.com and as far as i know we have a full team for this and the next season :)

[RogueAgent]

Thanks Glenn.

Drop a note to the ozquaker site admin (if they're still active) because thats the outdated link I followed to your old site.

I think I will start in Division 3 anyway. No grapple means I'll have to learn how to strafe jump and bunny hop properly anyway and I probably wont get broadband until after exams are over.
If you hear of any openings in respectable (not neccessarily high skilled) clans in the lower divs, let me know.

[cpd]

No grapple means I'll have to learn how to strafe jump and bunny hop properly anyway and I probably wont get broadband until after exams are over.
We can teach you. :) :o